They're going after Fr. Z and Church Militant.
Fr. Z proclaims his innocence - he did not instruct readers to voice complaints - he just called out Fr. martin as a homosexualist. (I didn't see him issue an 'action alert' on this, so I agree he didn't call up the troops to protest.) But he is definitely being blamed. I think his status is being questioned, since the LaCroix article identifies him as an "American priest known as “Fr Z” who, strangely enough, is incardinated (that is, belongs to) an Italian diocese, but lives in the United States."
This sort of vitriol is profoundly changing the communion of the Catholic Church. And not just in its ethos, but also in the way it functions. It signals a new kind of censorship that uses verbal violence to intimidate individual Catholics, as well as institutions within the Church – institutions that exist (also) to protect the rights of Catholics.
The small groups that are behind the campaign that persuaded a prestigious Catholic seminary in the US capital to rescind its invitation to Fr Martin have grown over the last few years. They make up a Catholic cyber-militia that include “news” organizations like the Detroit-based “Church Militant” and bloggers such as Fr John Zuhlsdorf, an American priest known as “Fr Z” who, strangely enough, is incardinated (that is, belongs to) an Italian diocese, but lives in the United States. - LaCroix
Fr. Z is not scared. I'm sure complaints about him pile up in Rome, but he appears to be safe under Bishop Morlino. I think the most offensive thing Fr. Z ever does is call out people using labels which often denigrate their authority or identify them with liberal ideologies. Sometimes he calls for 'action alerts' - and some time ago he used to ask for donors to donate to him instead of donating to NCR.
"I think a good way to show what you think of the NCR would be, first, to talk someone out of a subscription and, then, a spiffy donation to WDTPRS using the donation button below. If every reader here would pitch in $5, that would make a statement, given the number of readers we have." - WDTPRS
One can't forget his feud with Phyllis Zagano and The NCR which he dubbed the 'fishwrap' and later National Sodomite Reporter a few years back. Google Zagano and Fr. Z and you get: "I am told that Phyllis Zagano, who works for the National Catholic Reporter, is still calling around in order to make trouble for me and harm my reputation." Therefore, I think it safe to say, one may assume that kind of thing is most likely happening right now in the wake of the Fr. Martin 'dust-up'.
So as we pray for Fr. Martin, let's keep praying for Fr. Z as well.
The Catholic blogosphere seems to be turning into the vestibule of hell.
Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate
Fr. Z is not scared? he carries guns under his vestments during mass:
ReplyDelete"About carrying a handgun while saying Mass… I am neutral on that point. It is wrong for a priest or bishop to say Mass with his wallet in his back pocket? Money can be misused, after all. Can he have his smart phone in his pocket? A pocket knife on his key ring? You can do bad things with smart phones or knives or keys. QUAERITUR: Are priests allowed to carry handguns?" 21 June 2013 Fr John Zuhlsdorf
No. he is scared - because his bishop can shut his blog down. And the Madison Bishop can insist that Fr Z no longer carry a weapon inside the Church during Mass.
This whole affair will blow up!
And all those who oppose Fr Z can phone write & e-mail the Bishop about Fr. Z carrying guns during mass - and I think they should.
DeleteWho thought we all would get front row seats to the contentious online "Tower of Babel" squabble fest? And by two Catholic priests too ... while the world burns, folks are starving, more hurricanes on their way, possible bombs exploding ... what a sorry state.
DeleteLet's pray for all concerned cause we are all gonna need it.
p.s. all this hot air is rather amusing and I would read up on it but I gotta go scrub the toilets now. Have a wonderful rest of the day Terry blog readers ... you too Terry!
You are right about the gun - but I still don't think he's scared - I think he doesn't feel safe, so that's different.
DeleteI think the most offensive thing Fr. Z ever does is call out people using labels which often denigrate their authority or identify them with liberal ideologies.
ReplyDeleteAh, no. The most offensive thing he does is post picture after picture of his meals and post after post on his expensive travel. But - that's just me.
Remember Fr Corapi? This too shall go away and be forgotten. Such is the internet.
He should do a travel show for PBS - I would watch it. I like his travel stuff.
DeleteIts called food porn.
DeleteFr Z has even posted pics of his meat on Fridays! During Lent I think!
I've read his blog for years, starting ehen I was returning to the church I was taken from as a child. His information is solid and helped a lot when I had nobody to ask. I met some goid friends there and have met him, not on purpose, but we were at the same event.
DeleteS9me of his stuff is contentious but the thing that has bothered me is the name calling about the novus ordo.
The food and m9ney don't bother me. Most of his trios are, like this trip to Rome, for conferences. He has to pay if nobody's bringing him in to speak.
The food doesn't bother me, but I preferred his cooking posts. I'd like a Z cooking show and would buy the Z cookbook.
I wasn't sure if he disparaged the Ordinary Form or just the way some celebrate it. Otherwise I agree with you. He really could have a cooking show - and I'd like to see him have cocktails while he does it. I honestly think he can be very funny.
DeleteI think he was negative as a free floating priest but was reined in once attached to Madison. At that point he started moderating his stance on NO because he has to offer it up, as it were, no longer being able to only say the EF. I was never sure whether he was playing to his audience or whether he stated his feelings. He also cracked down on his com box and no longer tolerates extreme comments.
DeleteThe fundraising campaigns are free will offerings from people who appreciate his blog and can afford to donate.
I think a lot of his readers are in unfortunate locations, lacking a reverent Mass in any form or who are unable to get to one.
A lot of places aren't as lucky as we are, with such an array of Masses and one that suits everyone.
LOL! I would buy Fr. Z cookbook! Everyone who knows of Fr Z. expects him to write a cookbook!
DeleteNo one expects Fr. Z to write a meditation on the Passion of Jesus Christ Crucified! Nor does anyone expect him to write a devotional book on The Blessed Mother!
Again LOL!
He may come away easy but then again who knows? The diehard fans will stick with him to the end but like Adrienne, his boasting of his appetites, his penchant for name calling those whom he disagrees with were turn offs for me.
ReplyDeleteI was always left with a bad impression until finally I had to get going cause his blog and his followers were not helping me grow in Christ.
Rumors about Fr. Z have circulated for years as to why he's where he's at. I frankly could care less about it all but don't squirm if you can't take the heat ... as they say, "what goes atound, comes around."
Chispas! I meant "around"
DeleteActually, his picking up on rumors and then discussing them can disappoint me. I used to be bothered by the fundraising but now it doesn't disturb me.
DeleteFundraising? Never bothered with it as my local parish suits me fine. I glossed over some of the internet rumor stuff posted by folks who really dislike him but since I am not caught up in all things Fr. Z, I just forgot about it.
DeleteInternet drama is a bore and a complete waste of time.
A few things. First, I have no problem with priests carrying guns during Mass. I think it's actually quite prudent given the amount of hatred and vitriol against priests that we encounter these days. I know a priest who recently received a threat. For a time, he carried a gun everywhere he went, including when he offered Mass. It's prudent. It's legal. There is no canon law prohibiting it. Second, Fr. Z. does good work, but I admit that his constant begging for money is beyond me. He gets paid like every other priest. I don't understand why he has to constantly be raising money other than he likes expensive things and travel. But other priests don't have that luxury, I don't know why he should. I think THAT is much more of a problem than him carrying a gun. Overall, I can deal with Fr. Z.. He is a voice for the Church in America that currently is not heard anywhere else. Now if his bishop would just crack down on his constant begging.
ReplyDeleteYou should have a problem with priests carrying guns while saying mass.
DeleteIts Un-Christ like. Too bad you fail to see that.
Read St Thomas Aquinas On Whether it is Lawful for Clerics to Kill Evil-Doers?
The answer is no.
Remember St Matthew was martyred while saying Mass.
St. Thomas Aquinas is not infallible. A priest has a right, under Catholic Doctrine, to defend himself, and the people entrusted to his care. You shouldn't be more Catholic than the Church!
DeleteTell me which priests are the ones carrying the guns (from their very large cache of weapons) in the Fatima Vision?
Delete1. Those Priests that are attached to the group of Nationalist soldiers lying in wait for the Fatima Pope and Faithful?
OR
2. Those Priests following the Fatima Pope with the rest of the faithful up the steep mountain?
Which group of Priests carries guns?
Which group of Priests carries a Crucifix?
You lose now and in the foreseeable future.....
Haha! Not to worry. Fr. Z loves this - eats it up, as it were. He has a hilarious post up on the recent developments, saying "Please! Attack some more!" And he even suggests getting a Fr. Z defense fund. LOL! He's invincible!
ReplyDeletehttp://wdtprs.com/blog/2017/09/please-attack-some-more/
Where did this Father Z come from? What is his assignment? His apostolate? Who follows him? Why should I care at all about him? I know next to nothing about him and have even less of a desire to learn about him. I have known priests who love luxury and expensive things. To a tee they have not been spiritual men. They use the priesthood to live a lifestyle they would never be able to enjoy as say a school teacher, nurse or waiter. What fools we are to give these con artists our attention and even more our hard earned money. This is what drives people away from Christ and his Church.
ReplyDeleteHe's from Minneapolis-St. Paul. He's a good priest - faithful as can be - and now he has an assignment in Wisconsin. He doesn't abuse his priesthood and really doesn't live a lavish lifestyle. He travels a lot for speaking and retreat work I think, and he likes to cook and dine out, but I think it's his independence and freedom which raises the curiosity and ire of those who dislike him - pretty much because he can be a little opinionated, if not razor tongued/penned. He's traditional but he also says the Ordinary Form of Mass. He's very devoted to Pope Benedict, but also recognizes the authority of Pope Francis. His followers can get a bit out of control at times, and he looks worse for that. Oh, and his politics are decidedly very conservative and he disparages liberals. He's actually mellowed with age I think. Having said that, I know some of my readers here will disagree with me.
DeleteI remember when our current Holy Father was elected in 2013, Father Z acted as if the world had ended (my opinion). He shared about how he broke down and cried when Papa Francis appeared on the balcony; then he decided he was "laying low" from his blog while his blog folks were busy being critical of Pope Francis. I got called a heretic for defending Papa Francis while Fr. Z "was laying low" on his blog as if in mourning. He neither defended Pope Francis nor me, a humble commentator. ×-× Ah well ... perhaps if I had been a devoted and frequent contributor of money, things might have been different for a humble commentator such as moi. ;)
DeleteAnd Father Z banned me from even viewing his blog just because I very respectfully corrected him when he publicly rejected Church teaching that the OF and the EF are not two different rites but two forms of the same rite. Father Z is a very nasty man who viciously attacks anyone who disagrees with him. He also takes constant jabs at Pope Francis, whom he obviously despises. The man you describe as Father Z does not exist.
DeleteOk Terry Iwill take your word for it because I trust your judgement. I have nothing against people who want to own guns, but a priest during Mass? Well, that just does not sit well. Not really sure why. I could be wrong, but I do not think even a chaplain in combat carries a gun. Perhaps I was too harsh in my previous comments especially since I do not know the man at all. I cannot deny though he has no appeal for me.
ReplyDeleteMany years ago Fr. Z wrote that one can fall into the ditch from either side of the road. Guess he's in it now.
ReplyDeleteFather Z was 'lying low.' Being a retired English teacher I'm driven to correct grammatical deviants.
ReplyDeleteI am but a reluctant "on purpose" grammatical deviant when the trolling suits me. ;))
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DeletePatrick has helped me too - he catches my grammatical errors. Nan does too sometimes. I'm grateful.
DeleteYou are too kind dear Terry.
DeleteI remember when I took it upon myself to correct the noble wh's misspelled words, doing so with a sense of humor and good Catholic affection. ;) I never expected a dissertation from kind wh much less from yours truly ... this is the internet after all, where anything goes it seems.
I recall your corrections Yaya. It was the beginning of a true friendship. Mucho Gratcias! Have I told you lately how much I enjoy your observations, insight and humor? Well consider it done today. Kidding aside you have influenced me with your corrections and not merely spelling and punctuation either. Really.
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DeleteAh ... you are too kind pero gracias, amable wh. ;)
DeleteI found that compared to your wisdom, I was in no position to correct you any longer especially as I am what some would call a grammatical deviant.
I chuckle everytime I read that term ... amusing.
I enjoy reading your commentary as well, I learn from it lots dear friend.
Kiss the baby boy for me. May the Holy Family watch over your precious grandchildren forever.
This is interesting. The two main Catholic blogs I read right now are Fr. Z's and this one. Some days it's like getting whiplash. I find it often edifying: on certain subjects, when people are getting whipped into a foam over at Fr. Z's, Terry is often able to put it into a prayerful perspective for me. I appreciate that.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate Fr. Z's catechesis, especially when it seems that Holy Mother Church would rather become a sort of moral, kind of friendly non-gender-specific club you can go to once a week if you feel like it and sing (if you want to).
The objections to Fr. Z's tastes in food or travel (suggesting they're sinful) are in my opinion ridiculous and just silly. I suggest as a tonic the most delightful movie "Babette's Feast." If you think anyone--let alone a man of God--can't be prayerful and Christlike without also enjoying a fine meal now and again--or a glass of wine--or whatever--well that smacks of a pinched sort of spirituality. At the worst it lacks charity. No one expects Fr. Z lives on foie gras and fine chianti; I'd rather expect the food to be lovely in Italy; I've never had the impression he's posting about it to make the rest of us dumb swine slaver in jealousy any more than Rick Steves or Anthony Bourdain does.
Anyway, I'll still read both blogs: I get my Catholic news quicker from you guys than anywhere else :)
Thank you! :)
DeleteOh--and lest anyone think I'm a Zed Head, he only time I think I commented on his site was in regards to heat-packing priests. I'm against it. I work in a parish (not a volunteer; my actual boss is a guy in a collar) and while I'm not against parishioners defending the priest, I don't want my boss pulling a trigger. Not sure how he feels about that; I'm willing to bet some days he's glad he doesn't have the opportunity to make that choice.
ReplyDeleteHere's a good way of being charitable towards those who have same -sex attractions and for those who support them.
ReplyDeleteHow Christians can accompany those with same-sex attraction
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/how-christians-can-accompany-those-with-same-sex-attraction-14386/
You wanna be credible and be taken seriously? Stop calling people names like "homosexualist or gay supporter." Sure, there are some who would seek to go against Church teaching on this issue but with faith, prayer, reason, perhaps they might listen if one is found credible, charitable and patient.
Actually, take the examples of Archbishop Charles Chaput, Archbishop Jose Gomez, Bishop Robert Barron and Bishop Robert Reed. They are great examples (in my opinion) of how to proclaim the truth without resorting to smear tactics/name calling.
I tend to agree--if everything were on equal terms, and the opposing side were not given to using hyperbolic phrases like 'Nazi' and 'bigot' or worse. It's getting rather sparky out here on the coast; it's not made any easier by the fact that the pressure is on to make conformity the norm.
DeleteFr. Dwight Longenecker had a good post today about how this is a tempest in a teapot, but unfortunately I fear it will have the long-run effect of further fractioning an already fractioned church. If we could keep our eyes on Christ--instead of what we want, or what the world wants--on either end of the spectrum--we can't fail. If Christ and only Christ is our end--and not empty moralizing or conformity with popular culture, or what have you--none of this will matter. Not one speck.
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DeleteBoth sides are at fault (too bad there are sides) one side uses the word heretic freely and frequently (many have called our Holy Father such) and like you say, nazi and bigot but hater is another word tossed about too.
DeleteAnyway, as I am reflecting on my day it occurred to me this kind of stuff has been going since the beginning when our Lord walked the earth and even before that so why am I still saddened by it?
Our God reigns is my hope so much so that when He returns, all things will be made new especially the heart's of His people.
Let's keep praying!
I absolutely agree, Yaya. We cannot hope to convince anyone of the truth if we are screaming or calling names. This is not the way of Jesus. The point is not to convince anyone of my point of view. The point is to convince the person in question of God's point of view, of His teaching and Will. We must always remember to use logic, truth, and charity, and never to allow personal over-emotion to enter into it.
DeleteHere's a prime example of good, solid advice from Archbishop Charles Chaput:
Deletehttps://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2017/09/civility-and-church-life
"Some of the recent attacks on Martin, sparked by his book Building a Bridge, have been inexcusably ugly. Fr. Martin is a man of intellect and skill whose work I often admire. Like all of us as fellow Christians, he deserves to be treated with fraternal good will. It’s one thing to criticize respectfully an author’s ideas and their implications. It’s quite another to engage in ad hominem trashing. In Dr. Faggioli’s view, Fr. Martin is yet another victim brought low by a mob of conservative cyber-militias. And these militias have allegedly been fostered by a generation of John Paul II and Benedict XVI bishops, who reshaped “the U.S. episcopate in the image of the ‘culture warrior.’”