Decadent Papal Court style gossip, now online...
There are a lot of rumors flying around about the Pope. Already much of what is being published has created a cloud of suspicion over the new Pontificate. One day 'they' say this, the next day another source refutes the information. Rumor has it he will remodel the papal suite - 'too big', and 'got rid of the papal throne'. If true, how does that affect Papal authority? What are the details behind the story?
"All those who were my friends are on the watch for any misstep of mine."
Criticizing the style and decorum of the pope is part of the problem, but outright fabrication of stories claiming the Holy Father is an enemy of traditional Catholicism, as well as a liberal progressive, favors a larger role for women, condones civil union - something now proven to be false - all contribute to an atmosphere of mistrust and uncertainty. Likewise, accusing the Holy Father of false humility and pride smacks of rash judgement and detraction. It is divisive and scandalous, and it threatens the faith of ordinary believers.
"Perhaps he will be trapped, then we can prevail, and take our vengeance on him."
Someone wrote a post a few days ago on how 'liberals will turn on the new Pope' - explaining they love him now because of his display of humility and poverty, his openness to journalists and so on, but he predicts they will turn on him later. Unfortunately, 'faithful' Catholics may turn on him as well, especially if the Catholic experts continue their censorious lamentations.
Pray for the Holy Father.
"Faithful Catholics" already look as if they are- and the man who likes to throw around "liberal" included. It's us rejects who are supporting him the strongest and the loudest. I won't apologize for loving a pope who lives the Gospel.
ReplyDeleteLove the words of this post. All of it, the truth.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree, Terry, that faithful Catholics will turn on the Holy Father. That defies the definition of "faithful." Simeon told Mary in the temple that "many hearts will be revealed" as a result of the Christ child. I think many hearts will be revealed in how they accept or reject the Holy Father.
ReplyDeleteDo we believe that the Pope is the divinely appointed Vicar of Christ, or is he just someone that was elected by the College of Cardinals and is subject to our judgment?
We all need to stop listening to the cacophony of voices out there and instead listen to the Holy Spirit and to the words of Jesus Christ: "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail."
"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." We cannot trust our physical senses or our judgment to lead us to the truth.
Catholic in Brooklyn,
ReplyDeleteThe Holy Spirit guides a conclave but He does not always get His way. I like Pope Francis but historically there were bad Popes. The Holy Spirit did not pick Pope Alexander VI who had 6 children by mistresses as Cardinal and one child by a married 25 year old as Pope. Pope Julius II bribed his way in to the papacy and had three daughters as Cardinal...one Felice, was publically known as his dauther. Paul III had four children as a Bishop illegit but he did repent prior to being Pope. These romeos were Popes during the lifetime of Luther. No great
wonder that Luther ended up marrying...
The Holy Spirit guides but does not compel.
Yes, there have been bad popes. But no matter what spiritual condition the Pope may be in, he can never mislead the Church. If we don't believe that, then our Lord was com;letely misleading us when he said the gates of hell cannot prevail against the Church.
DeleteThe Holy Spirit will not allow the Pope to mislead the Church. If that's not true, then nothing is true.
Catholic in Brooklyn,
DeleteThe Pope cannot mislead us if he accesses infallibility. He can otherwise. Pope Leo X in the non infallible Exsurge Domine , in art.33 condemned, supported burning heretics as not against the will of God. He issued an excommunication latae sententiae if you agreed with Luther that such burning was against the Holy Spirit. Now the entire Catholic Church agrees with Luther if you but go to section 80 of Veritatis Splendor where it says that both "torture" and "coercion of spirit" are intrinsic evils.
Example 2: in the non infallible prudential letter, Romanus Pontifex, Pope Nicholas V gave Portugal the right to perpetually enslave "all other enemies of Christ" and take their possessions in the new world (online, mid 4 th large paragraph). Portugal did just that in Brazil. His letter was confirmed in writing by three successive Popes and contributed to the slave trade.
Pope Paul III several Popes later opposed them on slavery in 1537 in Sublimis Deus but withdrew his original excommunication for same which weakened him.
I admire your spirit but you'll notice the lack of real history is rampant in Catholic leaders who talk theology constantly but avoid history like the plague. Do both.
I believe in the Church and I cover up nothing. Cover up as a tendency did not begin with the sex scandal. Our defensive culture is festooned with it. Do both...theology and real Catholic history in equal amounts.
I am not saying that the Pope can never be wrong on matters that are not about faith and morals. I am not saying a Pope cannot be an unrepentant sinner. I am saying that no matter who is in the Chair of Peter, even if it were Al Capone, he cannot mislead the Church on faith and morals.
DeleteYou truly feel you have a right to question the pope? If the Pope is not infallible when it comes to faith and morals, then what do we have to rely on in this world? Are we just on our own?
Are we going to get upset with the Pope and question him because he won't wear the red shoes and has Holy Thursday service in a prison? Are we going to listen to all of the people who are spreading rumors, as Terry has posted here, or are we going to rely on the Holy Spirit to guide the barque of Peter?
You say you believe in the Church, and yet you feel free to question the Vicar of Christ? Do you believe he has been divinely appointed, or do you think it was just a political move on the part of the Cardinals?
I don't wish to take up Terry's combox with this debate. If you wish to discuss further, you can e-mail me.
I think so far, Pope Francis has been doing a great job. He is a humble man, faithful, loves the church and it's people. He is a genuine man. I see hope in him. Let's pray for him and the Catholic Church.
ReplyDeleteI think we'll find out who the faithful Catholics are, and probably it won't have anything to do with liberals vs. conservatives. I really love this Pope and I don't care about the (earthly or spiritual) politics of it all.
ReplyDeleteI haven't heard much in the way of rumors about Pope Francis, to be honest, just alot of joy and admiration from all corners. Yeah, there's a bit of static about minor allegations from his tenure as archbishop of Buenos Aires, but they haven't gained much traction. People like this pope and don't seem to be interested in media mudslinging this time around. I exclude certain quadrants of the Roman Catholic blogosphere, of course, but then, those quadrants probably should be excluded from one's digestion by anyone who doesn't enjoy chronic nausea. Such chronicles hardly reflect the paradigm of reality, in any event.
ReplyDeleteTake "got rid of the papal throne" for example. Blockheaded. I don't know from whence that one comes but it's moronic on a variety of levels. While there are a variety of throne chairs stationed in various audience chambers in the Vatican and at Castel Gandolfo, there is no "papal throne". The Bishop of Rome's cathedra in the Lateran basilica comes nearest to such a description, and they most assuredly haven't gotten rid of that permanently situated marble and mosaic behemoth.
Has Francis, perhaps, traded some of the velvet and gilt armchairs in the papal residences for the simpler earth tone chairs prefered by Paul VI and the two John Pauls? Probably. I would have expected that. He doesn't seem like a gilded throne kind of guy.
More importantly, however...who cares? Are thrones somehow essential to the Petrine ministry? Did Jesus instruct Peter to have a throne commissioned for each of his audience chambers?
There's apostolic tradition and then there's the mere accretion that comes from the Bishop of Rome having taken on the role of an earthly prince in ages wherein the papacy was the toy of warring aristocratic Roman families who used the Holy See to battle one another and to gain power, wealth, and prestige.
There are small numbers of Catholics who don't understand the difference and who view the sweeping away of worldly accretions with an attack on "tradition". These are the Catholics who routinely assail the rest of us for not being sufficiently catechized, incidentally. If we were properly catechized, we would understand the profound importance of ermine capes and red shoes and silken trains. *rolls eyes*
All this stuff might threaten the peace, faith, and unity of a few people who dwell within a certain milieu, but it's not impacting the Church and the world, at large. Francis is a good man and a role model and most people seem to recognize that his words and example invite the world to become a better place.
Cath in brooklyn - good point. I edited faithful to be 'faithful'.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHi Roza - I didn't like your comment, so I deleted it.
ReplyDeleteBye Roza.
ROFL
DeleteGMTA Terry. Today's reading made me think of the anonymous rumor-heavy, truth-devoid allegations being hurled at Pope Francis from every corner as well. I also love how some folks have been trying to twist the election of our new Holy Father into something sordid that God "permitted" but did not necessarily want, as in the Holy Spirit did not guide this election, He simply allowed it to happen. All because of the red shoes and the mozzetta! You know, I love Pope Emeritus Benedict, but as I have posted elsewhere, each Pope brings their own gifts to his pontificate. Francis is making the world sit up and notice. He hasn't done anything scandalous, though it is important to remember that mostly everything Christ did in His ministry was viewed as scandalous by the elders of the synagogues and the temple. He was also viewed as a threat to the establishment which resulted in His crucifixion. Again I think politics, not faith, is what is at play here. Perhaps the true source of the criticism is that Pope Francis is making those who hold themselves in the highest esteem as faithful and devout Catholics just a little too uncomfortable. That is a good thing, because none of us is perfect by any stretch of the imagination.
ReplyDelete...I am struck that we are witnessing a man who is moving in his new world Naturally - from His Own inside out - he is 'simply' being true to himself as God has led him to be. This is not easy. He Has had many years of 'practise', & I am sure he has experienced many trials in his daily life, which have honed his clear direction, and which now must really come in handy for ignoring 'the slings and arrows'. He will not be paying any attention to the odd critics, the very Controlling 'catholics' who, as the secular liberals all do, act like they are (oh oh ! images of monster "mass" puppets dance ominously in my head) holding the strings and freak out when they realize this is a man who is Following Christ, and No Other. I so look forward to his teachings ! I wonder if they will be spoken to us, from the window, as a loving Father, gently guiding us...
ReplyDeleteI had to take a day off from work today, my first: I said I was sick, I just did not specify "mentally" sick, just for today (?). My sister is terribly controlling - and hurt me so much - I am the youngest, of whom she is jealous. It has been a sleepless night of tears and struggles - there is nothing I can do, but forgive, Ignore the fierce pin-pricks: I listen to Francis, and think of what forgiveness entails, and it is a lot. But once it begins, it Is like fresh water running over old rocks, cleaning and smoothing. (however, Thank God she is 3 hours away). also, forgivenss is the only way, it seems, to slip out of the grasp of the evil one, who does so love to foment strife. I think we will be seeing much stife storming around this papacy, and it will be lovely to see Francis moving serenely throught it.
You know, it is okay to disagree with SMALL things a Pope says or does. Or wears. No, it doesn't really matter, which makes it a candidate for being liked or disliked. And that's okay. I didn't like Benedict getting on Twitter. I'm not a fan of Francis dumbing down the dress code, cause I think that stuff is cool. Just like the pin stripes on my motorbike wheels, or the tinted screen. Doesn't make it go faster, but I think it sharpens it up a bit.
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